The difference between cynics and pragmatists is that the former enjoy the process while the latter are pleased with the outcomes. The former care about how they look, while the latter care of what they really achieve. Till recently I have believed that the international humanitarian law (IHL) – to put it plainly, that’s the rules of conducting wars - was created by cynics. I perceived the IHL to be imitation of humanity. Does it really matter much for a soldier – to die from a usual or explosive bullet? And those “cynics” debated at their conferences the “allowed and prohibited” ways of killing people. And the international organizations watched those rules to be observed. One of them is the Red Cross International Committee, or RCIC.   

So I was prejudiced before my meeting with the president of the Russian branch of the RCIC Froncois Bellon. Well, the outcome of that interview was that I changed my opinion. Now I think that IHL was created by pragmatists who realize that it’s impossible to stop wars today, but it is quite possible to lessen casualties. They speak pragmatically about killed and missing people, as it is their job where the outcome is the only thing that matters. Probably they might admit that sometimes authorities are not interested in their assistance, but they keep silence in a pragmatic and diplomatic way, as any public statements may affect the outcomes negatively. Well, probably that’s the best way of doing your job, when your job is searching for those missing, for dead bodies and helping the families who lost their relatives.   

Q: You’ve been working in Russia for several years. Could you tell about the changes of situation in the North Caucasus?

A: We noticed rather long ago that the humanitarian crisis in the North Caucasus has passed. Since 2005 RCIC changed dramatically its activities in the region, or to be more exact, it adjusted it to the new conditions. There was no necessity anymore to supply Chechnya with essential goods. It became more important to give people opportunity of getting stable earnings. Last year we made the last supply of the humanitarian aid to the most vulnerable part of the Chechen population. Now those people don’t have a need in flour for example, and for them starting their own small business would be much more effective, allowing their families to have revenue.   

As for other lines of our activity, we are still engaged in the program of water supply systems restoration in the rural regions of Chechnya. Last year we stopped direct medical aid to the hospitals as we saw the federal and republican governments allot money for it too. We still carry on the surgery courses, like it is about orthopedic center in the city of Grozny, but you understand that this is no direct help.

One should acknowledge that situation in the North Caucasus has stabilized. Though, the safety issues of course cannot be considered to have been solved, as there are still some cases of violence. Incidentally, last year Ingushetia and Dagestan were featured with much more such cases than Chechnya. In relation to that the missing people issue is becoming the major one.    

Q: Do the local authorities in Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan assist you in your searching made? The media have reported repeatedly that some officials in the republics in question conceal intentionally the truth about missing people. 

A: Well, first let’s clarify something. First of all, it is necessary that authorities provide information to the families, not to us. Our task is calling the authority to do more and to make searching more active. In such a situation the figures do not matter much. We have information only about the applications made to our organization. If I’m not mistaken that’s about 1,300 cases and 95% of it came from Chechnya.  

But we must acknowledge that last year the number of missing people reduced significantly. I repeat that our task is calling the authority to get engaged more actively in search for missing people.

Q: And what means do you use?

A: There’s only one means – that’s a dialog. We have no power to enforce anyone doing something. Our organization only can send reports and documents to the local authorities, give consultations and advise. The authority is the last responsible instance. We must understand this problem is painful and complex. Any war is featured with killed and wounded, and missing. There are families waiting and there are people who unfortunately will never be found. 

The entire world knows that a lot of people disappeared in Argentine, Columbia, and in most African states. This tragedy is worsened with the fact it is very hard to solve. 

We only can work in two directions – carrying the dialog with the authorities and helping the families who lost their members. You understand those people have “psychological disorder”. I intentionally do not use the term “mental disorder”. That means those people can work, but they suffer greatly. Some psychotherapists have been working in our organization since recently who are to help such families. That’s all we can do. We must be pragmatists and so we are.  

Q: Ok, let’s stay pragmatists. The practice shows that local authorities in Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan are not always interested in your assistance, especially about searching for missing people. Do you agree to that?

A: Let us realize it one more time: this is a very specific problem, very complicated and very painful. We never can be satisfied with the results of our working. And our goal is to continue dialog with the authorities. We only can recognize that authorities got informed and have realized that people missing and their families suffering are a serious issue. I do not want to example any particular country but there is a trend: the more they say about relative stability, about peace achieved, the more cases of people missing become known. That means the more you say that everything is good and the war is over, the more often people ask you about their sons and husbands missing.  

Q: Another problem RCIC deals with in Russia is visiting prisoners sentenced because of the conflict in Chechnya. 

A: We had such an opportunity from 2000-2004. But we had to suspend those visits in September 2004. What’s the problem? We were offered a number of conditions by Russian authorities, which we could not accept. They said those visits must be regulated with Russian legislation. But we cannot go for such a concession, as there is the international practice regulating such visits. Talking simply, the Russian authorities said “Yes, but…” and we said “we cannot accept any ‘but’: you say ‘yes’ or ‘no’ and that’s all”. It must be noted here that, according to the norms of the international humanitarian law, Russian authorities are not obliged to allow us to visit the prisoners. According to Geneva Conventions, the RCIC has the right for access to the prisoners only in two cases: a) international conflict between two countries b) occupation like that made by Israel in Palestine where Israeli government must allow us to their prisons. In all other cases we only can make arrangements. During four years we had good mutual understanding with Russian authorities. Then some difficulties appeared. We discussed it but we could not accept their term and had to suspend our visits.    

Q: Maybe our authorities are not interested in that? 

A: No, I repeat that we cannot come to an agreement. They do want to see us, but under certain conditions. This is the question of legislature. According to the Russian law, our organization must get a permission to see a prisoner issued by the prosecutor’s office. Actually, similar laws are effective in all European countries. However, it should be recognized that RCIC visits not conventional prisoners, but those arrested in relation to the conflict in Chechnya. This is why we do not want to have to receive special permission from the local prosecutor’s offices every time. 

Q: So when will that agreement be made?

A: At the moment Russian authorities do not want to change their terms. We took those terms into account but cannot accept them. The RCIC president expressed his regrets about the Russian authorities’ attitude during the visit to Russia. But what can we do at the moment? Maybe later we shall understand each other about this question.